Every enterprise requires strong foundations and solid processes to succeed. Including politics, as we learn in this interview with DA Federal Council chair Helen Zille, who explains how meritocracy is applied inside SA’s official opposition. Zille also answers questions on the hot topics of the moment, including the impact of Jacob Zuma and MK; preparing for a coalition in national government; the threat of her DA losing its majority in the Western Cape; and the man calling it, Patriotic Alliance President Gayton McKenzie. She spoke to Alec Hogg of BizNews.
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Summary of the interview
In the interview conducted by Alec Hogg with Helen Zille, they discussed the Democratic Alliance’s (DA) approach to governance and coalition politics in South Africa. Zille highlighted the challenges of coalition governments, emphasizing the DA’s goal of becoming a party of government in smaller provinces. She noted Jacob Zuma’s impact on political dynamics, particularly in KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng. Zille expressed concerns about unstable coalitions affecting governance and service delivery negatively.
The discussion delved into the DA’s decision-making processes regarding potential coalitions, acknowledging the lack of ideal options and the preference for an outright majority. Zille stressed the importance of stability, service delivery, and economic progress for South Africa. Despite challenges, the DA remains focused on strategic governance and effective leadership.
Overall, the interview provided insights into the DA’s political strategies, coalition considerations, and the complexities of governing in a multi-party environment, reflecting Zille’s role as the chair of the Federal Council of the Democratic Alliance.
Extended transcript of the interview ___STEADY_PAYWALL___
00:00:07:23 – 00:00:30:10
Alec Hogg: Well, for those of you who are watching, you can see a familiar face on screen. Helen Zille, we’re going to be talking to her in just a moment. It’s a lovely follow-up for an interview we had yesterday with Kathy Berman and Prince Zuzifa Buthelezi, fresh talents who will be heading for the chambers of lawmakers. The Parliament of South Africa.
00:00:30:12 – 00:00:58:15
Alec Hogg: And the reason why I’m keen to talk to Helen is because in recent years, the Democratic Alliance has consistently drawn achievers from outside of politics onto those green leather benches. Think Glynnis Breytenbach, Doctor Leon Schreiber, Michael Bagraim, and this year, Ian Cameron. So, Helen, I guess that’s the story. We as the voters, we the people love to see the best people possible in Parliament.
00:00:58:15 – 00:01:18:16
Alec Hogg: It hasn’t been the case for a while. You guys have done your best on this. How do you go about it, though? Do you sit around in the federal courts? And just to remind people, Helen Zille is the chair of the Federal Council of the Democratic Alliance, do you sit around and say there’s Ian Cameron? He looks like the right kind of person for us.
00:01:18:16 – 00:01:24:14
Alec Hogg: We will go and tap him or what is the process first to identify talent?
00:01:24:16 – 00:01:50:10
Helen Zille: Well, we have the most comprehensive and meritocratic process of any party, and our goal is to ensure that we bring the very best people to Parliament who are available. We put an enormous effort into that task. So Ian Cameron is one of our new faces. But we have a significant number across all the nine provinces and of course, nationally as well.
00:01:50:12 – 00:02:16:23
Helen Zille: So we’ve put an enormous effort in this year as we do every year. And refine our process every year to get better and better. So yes, in between elections, we scout for talent. For example, the minute this year’s election is over on the 30th of May, my mind will turn to the 2026 local government election, and I plan to go round to key towns across the whole of South Africa.
00:02:17:01 – 00:02:39:07
Helen Zille: And I will find the shakers and movers, who often lie in a lot about the circumstances and with good reason. And I’m going to say to them, you don’t have to complain now. You can actually do something about it. Stand for election, get in the ring and do so. So we start for talent all the time and obviously Ian Cameron was one of the talents that we spotted.
00:02:39:09 – 00:03:07:01
Helen Zille: And right back then we approached him and asked him to consider putting in an application. So the very first stage of our nine-month process, nine-month ten-part process is a call for applications, and that goes far wider than the DA we had. We advertise and we say, if you’d like to be part of solving South Africa’s problems, then please put it.
00:03:07:02 – 00:03:27:16
Helen Zille: Put your hat in the ring. Tell us what your attributes are. These are the attributes you have to meet if you want to be an MP or an MPL a member of a provincial legislature, go ahead if you’re good and if you meet these attributes, apply and we get some really interesting new people from all over the place.
00:03:27:18 – 00:03:51:10
Alec Hogg: What’s a process that I guess would not be fully appreciated? Because one sitting on the outside, you think, well, if you want to be a member of a party or if you’ve been a member of a party for a long time, and you perhaps get rewarded by being put into Parliament or into a provincial legislature, particularly if you don’t have terribly good prospects in whatever job you’re doing at the time.
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00:03:57:08 – 00:04:20:00
Helen Zille: Well, that is the case in many parties. Becoming an MP is like a gold watch for long service. You get to climb the ladder and it takes time. And eventually, irrespective of how good or not you are, you get into Parliament now. That is not how it works in the DA. In fact, we want all our incumbents to have a good run for their money.
00:04:20:00 – 00:04:49:02
Helen Zille: We want them to have the strongest possible competition that we can bring into the field. Because we believe in competition. We believe that competition drives excellence. And if you know, for your full five-year term, that you’re going to face tough competition in the next round, you’re likely to put all of your effort into your role as an MP, as a constituency head, as a communicator, as a representative, as a legislator that you possibly can.
00:04:49:04 – 00:05:13:13
Helen Zille: And so our candidate selection process is very specifically designed to ensure that the poorest performance, who are current incumbents, don’t return. And the very best of the new applicants come in. And in that way, we refresh, we maintain our best incumbents and we refresh with our best newcomers. And so we have the continuity and the new blood.
00:05:13:15 – 00:05:38:19
Alec Hogg: It sounds a bit like Jack Welsh at General Electric. Where he used to fire 10% of the people every year. Hopefully you don’t, you don’t do that. But I guess when you growing, when the party is growing, it’s much easier to bring in new talent. How are things going internally at the DA? Looking ahead to election 25, there’s any number of armchair critics who are saying you’re going to get a hiding in the Western Cape, or you’re going to go down in a national sense.
00:05:38:21 – 00:05:40:10
Alec Hogg: What’s your feeling right now?
00:05:40:12 – 00:06:07:12
Helen Zille: Well, internally in the DA, things are running at a top-notch level. The DA is a machine. We’re the blue machine, and we work very, very well together. And all the moving parts know where they fit in. And everyone gets on with what they have to do, knowing how they contribute to the race. And it’s exactly the same in our application process that, as I say, takes nine months.
00:06:07:14 – 00:06:34:00
Helen Zille: I mean, I’d like to take you through that so that you can see how complex it is. First of all, there is the call for applications. Then there is the screening committee. Now in that call for applications, we had about 1200 applications. And eventually we want to end up with 200 MPs and MPLs. Right. And so what we have to do is lose a thousand applicants along the way.
00:06:34:02 – 00:07:05:17
Helen Zille: That includes incumbents and newcomers. So the first thing that we do is have a screening committee. And the screening committee looks at all of the CVs that are submitted against the criteria that we set in the job description of an MP and an MPL. And you have to meet five out of the seven criteria to go forward. So we lose several hundred at the first or the second stage, which is the screening committee stage.
00:07:05:18 – 00:07:29:05
Helen Zille: And being the DA, we allow a person to appeal at every stage of the process. So at any stage of the process, if you fall out, you could appeal to an independent panel to say you were unfairly treated well, the process wasn’t right or whatever you feel was unfairly dealt, then the next step is the potential candidates program.
00:07:29:07 – 00:08:06:00
Helen Zille: Now, this is a step that people tend to be fearful of, but it is not as scary as it sounds. This is for invigilated exams with a lot of preparatory work, a lot which deals with the country’s constitution, the DA’s constitution, the DA’s history, our policies and road principles and values. So there are four different Invigilator exams, and the minimum coursework across all four is 80%.
00:08:06:02 – 00:08:28:11
Helen Zille: So you have to do well the afford. And of course, we lose quite a number of people at that point. The next step is what they call the Electoral College. Now the Electoral College is the state, a state at which the branches of the constituencies have their say. So the branches and constituencies elect people to go to the Electoral College.
00:08:28:11 – 00:08:55:01
Helen Zille: It’s a big body and every new candidate has to appear before an electoral college. They arrive there, they have ten minutes to prepare an unseen speech that they have to deliver before the Electoral College, and then face a raft of questions that they have to answer on their feet. And that is to test your ability to give an impromptu speech, as well as to answer questions on your feet.
00:08:55:03 – 00:09:19:18
Helen Zille: And those answers have to be aligned to the DA’s policies, principles and values. And obviously, we lose quite a number of people. They the top 25% before the Electoral College go through, the bottom 25% fall out and the middle 50% gets ranked to create the final pool. Then if you’re a sitting public representative, you can’t go any further unless you get a duly performance certificate.
00:09:19:19 – 00:09:42:05
Helen Zille: And the duly performance certificate is the consequence of five years of performance evaluations against all the odds sticks. That would make you a good employ people, and if you didn’t do well enough, you don’t get your duly performance certificate and you can’t go further, which means then you are out. The next one is the fit for purpose test.
00:09:42:07 – 00:10:03:07
Helen Zille: This is a very excellent one. It’s kind of based on the Harvard model. We have a whole lot of case studies. And then we ask our candidates, what would you do in these circumstances. And we can then see if they can respond from a perspective of the DA’s values and principles. And then we also have a test on the job of an MP or and MPL.
00:10:03:09 – 00:10:37:16
Helen Zille: What that job comprises, the sphere of government there applying for what its role is, what it does, etcetera, etcetera. Then the next step is the selection panel, which ranks the pool, the final pool. There you arrive again. It’s much smaller than the Electoral college, but you arrive again. You get ten minutes to prepare a five-minute speech on an unseen topic and then answer questions both on the speech you’ve delivered and on other aspects that we want to measure in terms all our candidates.
00:10:37:18 – 00:11:03:13
Helen Zille: And then finally, all the scores are collated from all the different sources, goes back to the selection panel for ratification and the final review and ratification to the relevant executive, which in this case because it’s a national and provincial election, is the federal executive. So that is the process. And that is how we spent nine months managing the process.
00:11:03:15 – 00:11:29:08
Helen Zille: And in fact, interestingly enough, I stay in the place with quite a number of retired professors from UCT and one of the professors mentioned to my husband that he had a PhD student who was a very good student, and he had put his hat in the ring to be an MP for the DA, and he never faced such a grueling process in all his studies, right up to his PhD, as he faced in the DA.
00:11:29:09 – 00:11:32:21
Helen Zille: So we do pick the very best for you to serve you.
00:11:32:21 – 00:11:54:15
Alec Hogg: So glad. I’m so glad you went through that because it’s it is it’s it’s hopeful when you see people like Kathy and, Prince Buthelezi going to Parliament for their parties. But it was never really, I never tested with them how they got there. I think from Kathy’s point of view, she said she’s been working with Mmusi for for two years.
00:11:54:17 – 00:12:14:16
Alec Hogg: And from Prince Buthelezi’s point of view, well, his dad was the leader of the IFP, so he’s been hard-boiled in the party. But the way you’ve explained it, now it sounds like a but it sounds more like a corporation than a political party. It’s it’s more like it’s serious, serious job interviews before you finally get the job.
00:12:14:18 – 00:12:37:17
Helen Zille: Well, it is, and it’s much tougher than most corporations. And the purpose is that the DA’s not just a party opposition anymore. We’re a party of government. We govern provinces and we govern a whole swath of local governments across the country. And government is hard. Being in government and doing a good job is very, very hard. You’ve got to have the intellect.
00:12:37:17 – 00:12:57:16
Helen Zille: You’ve got to have the emotional intelligence. You’ve got to have the ability to read through huge amounts of documentation and read for meaning. You’ve got to be able to interpret it. You’ve got to take decisions on the hoof. You’ve got to be able to communicate with the media, and you’ve got to be held accountable and pass legislation and do a whole range of things.
00:12:57:20 – 00:13:21:06
Helen Zille: It is difficult. And all of this is in the middle of a public glare of spotlights, a new of a thousand people who all think they know the job better than you do, and who have all got criticisms all the time. That is the name of the game. It is brutal, and we have to pick people who have got all those attributes who will be able to stand the pace.
00:13:21:07 – 00:13:43:19
Alec Hogg: It’s a pity that the voters don’t take more account of that, I guess because we as the voters on the outside don’t really know, particularly with the current system of proportional representation. Who our MPs are they? Of course. You know The Helen Zille’s and the John Steenhuisens and the Cyril Ramaphosas. But what about the guys who are voting?
00:13:43:19 – 00:13:55:05
Alec Hogg: The people who are making the difference to the laws, those who voted for the NHI for instance? It’s a shame that that more of this is that they’re not better exposed.
00:13:55:07 – 00:14:21:12
Helen Zille: Well, we do our very best to build the profile of our MPs, especially our shadow ministers, who all have very important portfolios to run. And every single constituency across the country, and we divide the entire country into constituencies. Has a DA MP or MPL or councilor that is responsible for that constituency. Now we are strongly in favor of electoral reform.
00:14:21:14 – 00:14:50:17
Helen Zille: We believe there should be a combined list and constituency-based system 200 from each, so that you get the direct representation element. But you can also prevent gerrymandering by having the percentage balance on the proportional system. And that combination, which was first proposed by Frederick van Zyl Slabbert originally when he proposed that electoral system is one with a few amendments that the DA strengthens.
00:14:50:19 – 00:15:03:21
Alec Hogg: Been a good conversation, but I think there are a few things going on at the moment that we must touch on. I spoke with Gayton McKenzie earlier this week. He says he’s offering an olive branch. Are you accepting it?
00:15:03:23 – 00:15:30:12
Helen Zille: Well, you see what he did today, Alec? He went and started his own multi-party charter. Whatever he’s trying to do with a whole lot of parties who support the ANC in various governments, especially the Karoo governments. And he’s been on the record as saying that he’s not finished with the ANC yet. He has a lot of work still to do with the ANC and one other party at the national level.
00:15:30:12 – 00:15:51:20
Helen Zille: And we have no doubt that that one other party is the EFF. If so, what Gayton does for PR and what Gayton does for power are two very, very different things. We’ve been let down by Gayton multiple times when he’s promised us all sorts of things. And, you know, they say, “Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.”
00:15:51:22 – 00:15:53:13
Helen Zille: But no one fools us eight times.
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00:15:53:19 – 00:16:08:02
Alec Hogg: And his vociferous view that the Western Cape is not going to be ruled by the DA at the end of May, after the end of May. What are your polls telling you on that?
00:16:08:04 – 00:16:38:17
Helen Zille: It’s up to the voters whether or not they wish to get the only functional and working province back into the fold of the ANC. That’s the issue in the Western Cape. Do they want to take the one province that works for everyone, where clean water is delivered, where toilets flush properly? Where load shedding is going down, where we have literally world-class health care in many of our public facilities, and where education is steadily improving.
00:16:38:19 – 00:17:04:16
Helen Zille: Do voters want to take that and hand it over to Gayton and the ANC? And the EFF or do they want to continue progress under the DA? That is the choice for Western Cape voters in this election. And by pushing the DA below 50%, they open the door for a coalition between the ANC, EFF, and Gayton McKenzie.
00:17:04:18 – 00:17:29:22
Helen Zille: And he has said in trying actually, ironically, to get one of our councilors to cross the floor with a promise of being number four on his list because Gayton McKenzie has no entry requirements, it is just purely extortion and bribery behind the scenes to get people away from other parties, he said to him, “That is the plan. That is what the plan is after the election,” and he offered him position four on the list.
00:17:30:00 – 00:17:51:00
Helen Zille: Our councilor wasn’t having any of it, and I think very intelligently and rightly so. So as I’ve set out the process that the DA follows, Gayton says quite openly, he’s a dictator. He calls himself a benevolent dictator. I’ll leave the adjective out. And he decides who’s on the list, who’s not on the list, and he changes from week to week.
00:17:51:02 – 00:18:13:04
Alec Hogg: And the other guy who would like to be a dictator because he’s even said so in public, Jacob Zuma, he’s back in the fold as a human being, you know him well. And I recall us, chatting once about and he’s a very pleasant human being, but the fact that he’s back in politics and given his track record is this something that we as South Africans should be concerned about?
00:18:13:04 – 00:18:13:22
Alec Hogg: Are you?
00:18:14:00 – 00:18:42:16
Helen Zille: I am concerned about it. Jacob Zuma is personally a pleasant, friendly, warm human being. His understanding of constitutionalism and the rule of law is close to non-existent. He still today really genuinely, I think, believes he did nothing wrong. He was only applying, he was the Guptas, etc. etc. and in a way, that is exactly how the ANC sort of PPE can be applied.
00:18:42:18 – 00:19:14:20
Helen Zille: So I get his logic but I was once called a racist for saying Jacob Zuma is a traditionalist who still sees things in terms of traditional governance systems, but it happens to be the truth. So I don’t mind being called names for telling the truth and he saw himself as president, as the king of South Africa, who could do what he liked, receive whatever gifts he liked, give any permissions he liked, and have the final say on everything.
00:19:14:22 – 00:19:41:02
Helen Zille: And you were still genuinely, genuinely puzzled as to why the Constitution didn’t allow it. And that is the great risk of Jacob Zuma. He has eaten deeply into the IFP support base, and the IFP, as you know, is part of the multi-party charter and would have brought us a good house of votes, which we really need, and that was very important for us.
00:19:41:04 – 00:20:08:00
Helen Zille: But as a Zulu traditionalist, Jacob Zuma knows very well how to communicate with that constituency and draw that in. And his track record of corruption and state capture and selling the country out to the Guptas actually doesn’t touch sides. It does. It’s an argument that doesn’t cut very deeply in some constituencies who are looking to vote on an identity basis.
00:20:08:02 – 00:20:33:20
Alec Hogg: Yeah, it kind of baffles the mind when you think of South Africa from a different perspective. What happened on the 12th of December 2015 where Zuma sent Des van Rooyen into the National Treasury to take over. He and well, actually the Guptas and the Gupta, one of the Gupta sidekicks. And if you think about that happening in many societies, the person who instigated that would just not be allowed back in again.
00:20:33:20 – 00:20:55:17
Alec Hogg: But I guess, as you say, it doesn’t really resonate in a particular constituency. But when we look into KZN and what could happen there in future, have you got any, any scenarios given that you’ve got a really strong candidate in Chris Pappas as the premier, if, for instance, he doesn’t become premier, does he then come, can he go to Parliament?
00:20:55:17 – 00:20:57:00
Alec Hogg: Would that be an option?
00:20:57:02 – 00:21:19:11
Helen Zille: He’s number one on the list, so he can certainly go to the provincial legislature. He’s not on the national parliamentary list. He’s on the provincial legislature list. And I certainly think, he will give all the other parties a good run for their money. He is a very good candidate. He’s very intelligent. He’s very able. He’s very steeped in the culture and traditions of the province.
00:21:19:13 – 00:21:42:18
Helen Zille: And he has a very big following. He won a 73% black municipality for us, which was spectacular, and he won it by 42 votes. And one is a win which shows you that every vote counts. And we’ve got every confidence that Chris will enable us to do as best we possibly can in KwaZulu-Natal. And of course, the ANC is crumbling there.
00:21:42:18 – 00:22:08:05
Helen Zille: So the ANC is crumbling between MK that Zuma’s party and the EFF and the ANC and several other parties. And as they crumble, if we want to make sure stability and progress is still possible, we have to consolidate behind the DA, and that is what we’re asking all moderate nonracial voters to do to consolidate behind the DA.
00:22:08:07 – 00:22:34:05
Alec Hogg: And in the final question, because it’s also the big one at the moment. Coalition government is so new for South Africa. It’ll be a first time probably. Well, I don’t know in centuries, apart from the little pec government that we had 100 years ago, where we’ve had coalitions in South Africa, and there’s a lot of armchair specialists saying that the DA is going to get into bed with the ANC because that’s the way coalition governments work, etc.
00:22:34:07 – 00:22:46:22
Alec Hogg: How are you looking at this? Just maybe give us a, a, B, c of how coalitions will work and where the DA is a pressure inside the DA to desperately get into governing the country, now in one way or another.
00:22:47:00 – 00:23:19:21
Helen Zille: Let me say that the DA has processes and systems, and no individual at this stage, least of all me, can get up and say what the DA will be doing. My job is to make sure the blue machine runs smoothly, and that is what I do every single day with some very good people like Liana van Wyk who is our chief operating officer, and others so we have systems and processes and we will work through those systems and processes to look at all the options.
00:23:19:23 – 00:23:49:20
Helen Zille: Now, how coalitions work is this when no party gets over 50%, various parties look around for partners to take them above 50%, if that is possible in that particular legislature. Now, in 1999, I was involved in my first coalition in in the Western Cape. That first coalition, no party got about 50%. We were the DP at that stage.
00:23:49:22 – 00:24:17:05
Helen Zille: And you may remember that the DP went into a coalition with the NNP the new National Party. And I don’t know if you remember the hullabaloo and outcry that resulted from that. People wanted us to go into a coalition with the ANC. And Van Zyl Slabbert had even said, I’ll be your premier candidate if you go into coalition with the ANC and we said, no, we’re not giving yet another province back to the ANC.
00:24:17:11 – 00:24:40:19
Helen Zille: It’s not going to happen. And we said even though we spent our lives fighting the NNP the time has come now to make sure that the ANC does not get nine out of nine provinces. A role as Democrats is to prevent. And so we did. And the hullabaloo eventually died down. Then we had our next coalition in 2006.
00:24:40:21 – 00:25:11:17
Helen Zille: At that stage, the DA split, the NNP had left us they had gone off to the ANC. They’d taken the city of us, and we got the city back on a coalition of seven parties. That was my next coalition. Now, in that coalition, when no party got about 50%, we were the biggest party. We had 42%. We could have easily done a two-party coalition with the Independent Democrats, and that would have taken us to over 50% because they got 11%.
00:25:11:18 – 00:25:39:15
Helen Zille: But the Independent Democrats did not want to do a deal with us. They wanted to go with the ANC, which was fatal for them. The ANC, it only got 38%, the Independent Democrats had 11%. So they couldn’t make it with the Independent Democrats. But we got six other parties to take us to just under 50%, and then the PAC abstained so we could just get 50%.
00:25:39:17 – 00:26:01:06
Helen Zille: So this is what happened in that particular coalition. Now, it was much more difficult to run than the simple two-party coalition we had in the province. A seven-party coalition is an absolute nightmare, but we managed to see it through. And eventually, because they suffered so much at the polls, the ID came over to us and they became a coalition.
00:26:01:06 – 00:26:31:11
Helen Zille: And then Patricia de Lille joined us. If you recall, I think it was in 2011. So then we had a stable coalition. We won the province outright in 2009, and that was another kettle of fish entirely. When you get an overall majority. Oh, what a joy. You’ve put your manifesto to the public. You’ve put it in plan, the integrated development plan at the local level or a strategic plan, a provincial level.
00:26:31:13 – 00:26:45:04
Helen Zille: You put a budget to it. You manage performance. You manage the process and you get results. And that’s what you can do. When you get an overall majority, you can govern and govern well and really have results that show.
00:26:45:10 – 00:27:04:02
Alec Hogg: So outside of that kind of majority, which does not look likely in the national government, you might be faced with what you had to go through with the coalitions in the past. But really my question of how strong is the pressure within the DA? You’ve been opposition for 30 years to become part of governing nationally.
00:27:04:04 – 00:27:24:12
Helen Zille: Well, we are a party of governments, and obviously, we’re not going to want to be in opposition everywhere. Our aim was through coalitions, especially the MPC. That’s why we formed the MPC to see if we could just push and get Gauteng as a coalition government through the MPC and closing the tunnel. It would have been a fantastic result.
00:27:24:14 – 00:27:52:12
Helen Zille: Jacob Zuma has shaken things up a bit in KwaZulu-Natal and in Gauteng, frankly where he’s eaten into the IFP support base. So we’ve got a big challenge there. But the broad idea was that we become a party of government in small provinces, and that is what we are seeking to do and putting all our efforts behind if we fall, if the ANC falls below 50% nationally, which it’s very likely to do.
00:27:52:14 – 00:28:36:22
Helen Zille: The big question is by how much will it fall below 50%? And when no party gets 50%, what happens then is that the decision-making structures of the DA sit down. They look at all the permutations. There’s never just one permutation. There is a number of permutations that you can look at and do the pros and the cons and the scenario analysis, etc., etc. I’m very convinced that, not we’ve seen any correlation and Johannesburg and Mogale City that these unstable coalitions are very, very bad for governance, central stability and service delivery in particular.
00:28:37:00 – 00:29:03:18
Helen Zille: But as I say, the DA is likely to look at every single option and there’ll be no good options because the only good option is if the DA wins an outright majority. That is a good option. It’s best for the country, it’s best for service delivery, it’s best for the economy, it’s best for investment, it’s best for job creation, it’s best for education, for health, for all the other provincial competencies.
00:29:03:20 – 00:29:20:14
Helen Zille: But we’re not going to get the base nationally, although it would be very nice if we could because then we could really rescue South Africa. But we look at all the permutations and decide which is the least bad or the least worst. As I often say for South Africa.
00:29:20:20 – 00:29:40:01
Alec Hogg: And when we were at the BizNews conference a little while ago, we had a 45-minute after-dinner chat, which went on for an hour and a half. We usually do these interviews for 20 minutes. It’s gone on for half an hour, but it’s been fascinating as always. Helen is the chair of the Federal Council of the Democratic Alliance, and I’m Alec Hogg from BizNews.com.
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